Harlot Hotline

Chats with Madonna: Pregnancy and Community | Harlot Hotline

• Season 1 • Episode 2

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Welcome to Harlot Hotline - the show where sex workers and industry-aligned babes drop the act and say what we really think.

In this episode of Harlot Hotline, June Jones sits down with industry icon Madonna - a renowned sex worker and soon-to-be mother. Together, they unpack the complexities of navigating pregnancy within a profession that is so often misunderstood, misrepresented, and marginalised. 

Harlot Hotline is recorded on stolen land. We acknowledge the Traditional Custodians of this land, the Wurundjeri People of the Kulin Nation, and pay our respects to Elders past, present, and emerging. It always was, and always will be, Aboriginal land.


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SPEAKER_03:

Harlot Hotline is recorded on Stolen Land. We acknowledge the wandering people of the calling nation and we pay our respects to elders past, present, and emerging. It always was and it always will be Aboriginal Land. I'm June Jones, and this is Harlot Hotline, where S workers and industry aligned baddies drop the act and say what we really think. Some of you may have noticed my absence from online and socials the first year that I opened Harlot. And whether you know or not, it was because I was pregnant. Now, being pregnant, leaving the industry and starting a business all at once, it was a bit of a whirlwind. There was a lot of ups and downs, and I have always found it quite difficult to meet other mothers with similar experiences from the industry. So when I found out my next guest was pregnant, I was so excited. So um, my next guest is an incredible artist, a prolific social commentator, and industry icon. Please welcome Madonna. Oh, hello. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks. That's a really flattering intro.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, good. I hope you're flattered. Yeah. The truth. How are you feeling today?

SPEAKER_00:

I'm good. I'm coming along well. So really trying to wind down at the end of my pregnancy journey here, but still pretty gung-ho about doing projects. So I was happy that you invited me onto the podcast.

SPEAKER_03:

We're so, so appreciative that you came. Like it's a huge honor. How are these last days of pregnancy treating you?

SPEAKER_00:

I'm definitely feeling uncomfortable in my body, but excited and nervous and pretty ready, which is weird. It's kind of weird to just get into the headspace, like, okay, it's happening now, and there's nothing you can do about it.

SPEAKER_03:

It's weird, isn't it? I feel like by the end of it, it's almost like this mind and body meet, and it's just like, all right, we're good to go. Like, get out. Conviction notice served.

SPEAKER_00:

The whole pregnancy journey is like really out of this world psychedelic. Like it's like nothing you could ever wrap your head around until it's happening to you, I guess. And yeah, I I don't think that I ever fully comprehended what it was gonna be like, or when I have friends and family that are pregnant, I never fully registered like this big journey that you're going on with your mind and your body, and like so big, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I really resonate with that. I was actually reflecting on that recently that I really feel bad that I just fully comprehend and respect it until it happened to me. But then I did kind of start thinking about you know, like society isn't necessarily built for pregnant people or for even little children, yeah, and it's really weird, like a really weird space to navigate, and I think as a worker as well, for me, I knew it just like threw so many wrenches at me, and I was like, What who am I? What is this? Where am I going? Yeah, how has the journey been for you working as an S worker and being pregnant? Did it overlap at all?

SPEAKER_00:

It did, it was really abrupt, like I didn't I have an unplanned baby girl on the way, so it was this really sudden shift in like mind and body and preparing. So I worked into some of my pregnancy, I continued, and then and then the way I've worked has changed a lot to adapt to what I'm capable of or what feels comfortable at the moment. I think in that first trimester it was really hard, like it's like a really hard time emotionally, like hormonally, it's like big changes. So I think when it came to my first trimester and S work, it was good to be able to put my energy into creating my little nest egg last minute while trying to process with all these big changes, like it gave me something to focus on, which was nice, but definitely then it was time for me to start to wind down. I hoped or thought, or I don't know, I thought I was going to be able to work through my pregnancy a lot longer than I actually did. I was excited to be like an S worker and pregnant and have a representation in the world because I feel like we don't get to see that a lot. Absolutely, it's a real thing, and it's way more common than people would believe. And because I've lived my life and my career so openly online, I share my journeys, it only seems natural that I would continue to represent for other workers too. Yeah, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it's hard, yeah. It's hard to do that. It's an interesting duality to want to be able to well for one to acknowledge that like platform that you have to share that part of yourself, like it's a weird duality because for me I knew I just became very like introspective and very like this is my world, this is my bubble, please nobody enter it. And I was like a recluse. So it's it's beautiful to hear that you wanted to share that, but I'm interested in how you managed to do that, but also keep like certain parts of it for yourself and like respect your boundaries.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think I'm so lucky because I have a really good demographic of followers. Oh, that's awesome! It's so weird when you have a platform and do S work because it's either like like clients and buyers, but over the years my platform is really mostly just other S workers and like and women and the gays and the thems feel safe there, and I get so loved on. But I did lock down my socials just to protect myself because if I'm gonna get something that's violating and not protecting my peace, it's gonna be from a troll account. Yeah, it's just easy for me to lock down, I don't let any anonymous accounts in, and it was the first time ever really that I'd locked down my accounts. Really? The first time I always just had a free-for-all account, and then I was like, okay, I'm I did get a couple of hate messages, and then that was enough for me to be like, that's that's not worth me even reading, and and trolls are like an interesting psychological thing where it's like I could not understand.

SPEAKER_03:

Like, do something better with your life, babes. Like, I'm over here trying to just like yeah, like I'm trying to live my life, like go.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah and it's funny because they set up anonymous accounts, but they follow you off some other account, obviously.

SPEAKER_01:

So you're like, do you not think we don't put like the web together? Like we can figure it out pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_00:

So I I locked it down. I obviously spent some time before I told you know all my all the world about my pregnancy, and I did think about it a lot, and it's a big thing to think about. Like we already have so much stigma, so yeah, to then be adding something so vulnerable at like like childbirth and children into like a an energy that's already so stigmatized, it's really scary.

SPEAKER_03:

Was there ever like at any point did you worry about the perception of being a mother and how that's going to affect your clientele and potential future work or like the relationships that you have with certain clients? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I don't think so. For me, I've I've I have been writing the MILF thing for so long. I don't even have any kids, but I have always had big maternal energy.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, fully, yeah, I see that. MILF, if you didn't hear that MILF, that's she's correct, she's a MILF.

SPEAKER_00:

So it was like it's kind of natural that it would head that way, and and now becoming like a real life mom feels natural too. I've always had maternal energy, my clients love it, and my peas love it too, and I genuinely care about my peas so much that when I was younger and I started working, if it wasn't for the older workers that took me in and they were like my mom, it would have been a lot harder, especially back then without so much social media to find a connection and have someone take you under your wing.

SPEAKER_03:

It is like a mother, it's the same as like gay and queer community, and having like a mother and a family that is outside of biological, and we have that beautiful privilege of calling our community our family and show like choosing some of that family, and I really recognize like you have that deep maternal, yeah, motherly vibe, and it's so beautiful, and you're going to be the most beautiful present mum, and it's so exciting to get to watch.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm so excited. Yeah, it's a big change, and it was really big to allow myself to become a mum, you know, because that was like really the biggest internalized barrier. I still we talk about like horror phobia internalized, and so many times I've worked for for 15 years, nearly longer, and so many times I'm like, Oh, I don't have any hang-ups, I'm good. I and then something will happen in your life that makes you be like, Oh, this is sitting really uncomfortable, and so much more work to do.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I actually I feel that the things for me that came out when I was pregnant are things I never even considered, and it was such a strange moment for me. Was there any like really surprising things about being pregnant that kind of came at you that you were just like, What the hell? Where is this coming from?

SPEAKER_00:

I think um, I think for me it's like hindsight has been a really interesting thing, and the second I became a mum, I felt pregnant, I became a lot more protective of myself. Yes, I feel about some of my previous behaviours, and I'm like, oh my goodness, how could I have ever put myself in these situations or made these, you know, like risk-taking decisions? And if anything, I I think I spoke to another mum friend about it, and it's like, oh, when you're pregnant, it's like a really interesting time to be your own inner child as well.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, that's a good way of looking at it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you're like thinking about your own inner child and your own upbringing and things like that, but you're like thinking about it from your own point of view, but also like your your child or what is going to be, and it's like a really interesting time to be like, wow, these are like yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Fully. I feel like I'm not sure why, but I feel like actually, I know why. High childhood trauma. How are we? Um, I feel like a lot of my adult life has always been thinking about like what I would change in my childhood, and so it's kind of like this never-ending thread of like what I can change for my daughter that would be a positive, that would be beneficial, but also beneficial for me and my family. I think like like I've always said what's best for the baby is best for mom. Like, mom has to be the happiest, has to be the safest, has to be all of these things in order for the baby to be happy. But once you have that baby, once you're pregnant, that is just so loud and like amplified.

SPEAKER_00:

It's so interesting to navigate that in like this ever-changing society as well, like what you would want to change in your childhood, and and that's on breaking like trauma. The whole world is changing so quickly around us. How can we ever truly know and stand up?

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, for sure. There's no that's the thing, there's no right or wrong, and I think I have to for me at least, I have really accepted and leaned into the idea that my daughter's probably gonna find something to hate me for, and that's okay, that's fine. I think it's like all I can do is what I think is best, and I think for me that was a big part of letting go a lot of my childhood trauma is accepting that my parents did the best that they actually could.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I fully agree with that. They're doing their best too. I I totally understand, and and that's how I've overcome a lot of things within my own family as well, and and we're adding like extra layers of complication because of our work and the family dynamics and things like that. So to already begin to bridge on that connection of like they did the best they could, and and now it's your job, and then you're gonna do the best you can.

SPEAKER_03:

That's already sometimes it's just better to try to take the pressure off of yourself. It's so much easier said than done. Yeah, but it's important to remember, like, because sometimes you just get stuck in that tunnel vision, like I've got to do better, I've got to provide this. And I think for me at least, I found it the most pressure was like towards the end because I was like, Oh my god, but I started self-doubting myself, like, oh, I haven't done this and I haven't done that. But like this baby just wants to be loved.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. It's really the mum instincts. I feel you there because I'm I'm pretty a bit of an anxious person, you know, and I feel that, me too. And I'm like, Oh, have I done enough? And yeah, like social media has just destroyed that where I'm online and there's mom influences, and I'm like, oh wow, mom influences.

SPEAKER_03:

I feel like they're always like one end of the spectrum to the other, and you're like, Yeah, cool. I have 24 hours of the day available to sit home and like knit a yarn jumper from that baby.

SPEAKER_01:

Cool.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Have you managed to like have and find connections with other workers that have children or that are currently pregnant?

SPEAKER_00:

I'm have been so like feel so supported and loved by the entire community, and then so excited for the crossover of mum community and sex work community, and it's the second time in my life I feel so a part of something because when I first found sex work community, I can I remember and I've spoken and I've written about it. It was like the first time I found my people like a big warm hug, and and that's why I'm so passionate about my community, and now it's the first time I have felt that within another community, and it's because of the crossover, obviously.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_00:

But even non-sex working moms are like so inviting, and it's so oh that's so good! I love hearing that. It's so nice to be like, wow, I don't just have my community I've known for so long, but I'm in a journey and I've I've been so far so accepted into this second community.

SPEAKER_03:

It's like really many interactions with midwives or anything like that yet, or I health system in terms of being a mother.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I didn't tell, I usually would be very open with my doctors and things about my career choices, even just performing porn and going and seeing my doctors for really regular SEI checks, but I just couldn't risk that when it came to my midwives and and and where I'm gonna give birth and my doctors and things because I just don't feel safe enough, and it that is one of the things where I've had to step out of my own bubble because I live in a great echo chamber. Yeah, I mean, I feel like you kind of have to when you're pregnant because I feel really safe there, but for the first time I was like, I'm not even going to bother telling them what I do for work because I can't risk the way I'm gonna be treated as a result of. But I did I had to get some STI checks for like a um to shoot like a some OnlyFans content, and then I didn't realise that all of my results were gonna go straight to my midwives and things as well, and then they're there asking me why did I go and get an STI check? Asking you why you have to get an STI check? Because I didn't just get an STI check, I got the extra swabs required to shoot content. Yeah, but like it was so awkward.

SPEAKER_03:

Isn't that a good thing? Why are we asking? Why are the healthcare providers asking why? Why are they not like, hey, awesome, good one, cheers?

SPEAKER_00:

Um I said, look, it's just a routine thing that I do, and I went with my friends, it's like a girls' trip, let's go. But I'm I'm there with the father of my child, and I'm there having to talk about why I've gone a glue STI check halfway through my pregnancy, and that was awkward enough that I'm glad I withheld the rest of the information.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and if that's what you have to do to protect yourself and your mental health, by all means do it. I really struggled with the healthcare system just in general. I think being a woman in the healthcare system hard enough. Adding another layer into it, it just it's it's scary. How are you feeling about the upcoming birth?

SPEAKER_00:

I feel way more ready. I think at first I was very anxious. Uh I let the doctors and the midwives tell me what to do a little bit more, and then after a while I was like, I've got this. Like my body was.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, you do. You're the daughter. Come on.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I had like a lot of um, they wanted to do a lot of inter first. They wanted to make sure I had a C-section, then they're trying to induce me, and then every week I show up and all my tests really look great, and everything's fine, and I'm healthy, healthiest I've ever been, and my baby's healthy, and they're still pushing for um induction. It's so intense, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03:

I feel like they just like so um I think my doula friend explained it to me that the doctors are just trying to keep their statistics down. Yeah. And it's so isolating because you're already going through like this full body change, and you're so concerned about all these other things, it's hard not to dissociate from them and just say, sure, I'll do what you say.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, yeah, they always try to make our like doctors know best, but at the end of the day, you're really just you know best.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, you know best. I think from experience of like talking to other S workers through pregnancy, w we know our bodies so well.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And yes, we spoke about this that it's really you are so in touch with your body, you work with your body that it's a type of connection not a lot of other people get to actually have with their own bodies, so it only makes sense that you would know what to do.

SPEAKER_03:

Have you been working much? Like, when did you stop working?

SPEAKER_00:

I stopped working about 25 weeks. I just was really uncomfortable. Yeah. It was really uncomfortable. I moved from full service into more massage to make it easier.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god, that's right. I remember seeing the photo, and you're like, Yes, I get to lie down, or I get to like sit on the table.

SPEAKER_00:

I love it, it's relaxing. It's like the best kind of work for me. I really enjoy massage. There's less talking.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean down. That's the dream.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no interaction, really. I also thought that I was showing a lot, you know, and now I'm like, I could have gone way longer, could have gone way longer, and not had to say anything, but it it was my first time that I was looking this way, and I was a little bit worried, like I want to look like my photos.

SPEAKER_03:

How did you go with that like transition of like your self-identity and body changing so much because this industry is so hyper aware and focused on body image?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it is, and I feel so lucky that I've I've always like I've had a really good relationship with my body image from the start. Like I started sex work, I started swerk, you know, when I was 18 years old, which is a really peak time to be criticizing yourself and your body, and and as Swerk definitely did teach me that I'm beautiful and and all bodies are beautiful, and no matter what you look like, it's you're always going to be attractive to somebody, and yeah, it's a lot deeper than your outside, as much as it still affects me, and I I have a better relationship with myself and my body because of that. And I think sex appeal is not it's like a like a it's an energy, you know?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, for sure. It's always also like there's this sex appeal that's marketed, you know, but there's also sex appeal for an individual and how you're feeling, and it's so energetic, it's about you, and and I think like I really liked what you said about your following that a lot of those people are like other S workers and the gays, the girls. I'm sure that plays into your self-positiveness and how you feel and how you feel like you're being perceived within the industry.

SPEAKER_00:

I would hope so. I want them to have I like to have a really authentic representation of myself online, it's easier, you know, and it's showed me like it's given me success, you know. It showed me that that really is better than something a lot more curated, and it is refreshing to see, you know. I like to see authentic people online because we're so clouded by like a curated representation of somebody that it is really refreshing when you see somebody that's like ah, this is who I am.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, absolutely. That's a really interesting way to put it because I actually feel I was the complete opposite, and that for me was like my coping mechanism to be able to kind of like dissociate from really who June is, and it was like I could enter the work bubble and then exit it when I need, which is probably why I was so closed off when I was pregnant, yeah, but um I definitely felt like I really struggled with my self-worth and self-image and like who am I? So maybe if I had taken a a page out of your book about being a bit more transparent and being more me, and maybe it might not have been such a like windy road for me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think um when it comes to the way that you want to do S work, there's no right or wrong way, and it's for you. So if for you it's easier to be Dune and then come leave work and be yourself, that is the best thing for you, and if it's for me, it's harder for me to be like even my name Madonna, like it's like so you can call me Madonna if you're my friend, or if I'm at work, like it's so all over the place. It's just easier for me to flow through those that those two worlds, but I do think that's because I started at a time where it was a lot more different, branding was really different.

SPEAKER_03:

So god, don't even yeah, that's a whole other thing. How do you think it's affected you now? I feel like it's from an outside perspective, it's it's worked in your favour.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm so grateful that I got to experience this time in S work where it's like the end of an analogue era, and then really into a digital world. So for my age and for me to have got to experience what S-work was like then, and then now be living in a full-blown digital world, it's I'm like really reminiscent and sentimental about it, which you can see in my R and the way I see everything.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely, but I also think it's almost a good thing that you were able to experience both.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, of course. That's why it's like a really unique time because it was always changing, but but it just really sped up the way that things changed and the way that we use the internet for work and the way that we connect with each other too. Because when I started working, there was no community online, you know, and I didn't even have a smartphone.

SPEAKER_03:

Like I God, I know. I was telling someone the other day, and they're like, What? What did you what did you do? And I'm like, um, I remember when I was like 13, I had like a Nokia 33. Yeah, yeah. I was like lose it every weekend, and like yeah, how did I how did I survive? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

Even like when I first left home and I'm like a young adult or teenager, and I would lose my phone on some night out, and then I would go weeks without having a phone and survive. I know.

SPEAKER_03:

I like think about it now and I'm like, what was I live like what was I doing? One, I have no memory, but like how was I surviving with like no contact? I don't know. That's a story for another two.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's an interesting time to have existed in in the community. Like I would call the newspaper and put my advert in the newspaper.

SPEAKER_03:

I love that so much. I love that.

SPEAKER_00:

That is just not a thing anymore, you know?

SPEAKER_03:

Or you'd have to call the taxi company, pre-book it, wait inside until it shows up and kind of like make sure the secchi comes and gets you. Like, yeah, it's all so different now. How do you think you're going to navigate that aspect once baby comes along? Do you think that you'll be quite open sharing Bub online or I I don't think.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm happy to share myself as a mother online. Yeah, I'm excited to make hot milf content.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes!

SPEAKER_00:

I won't be putting my child's face online and it'll be only shared with really close friends and people and and and low-key. It's just a changing time, and we can't stay on top of internet security quick enough, you know? Absolutely, it's moving so quickly, everything's so fast and changing all the time. You can never be fully prepared and and assess all of the risks, and for me right now, it's just not worth it. I'm excited to bubble, you know. I I'm excited for the mystery around my baby.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, fully. I think that's something I had to navigate. Like, I never really wanted to share. Obviously, I didn't even share that I was pregnant on my June Jones socials, but I'm sure people figured it out, especially if they were coming to Hullett, and I was like 200 kilo, like dying behind the counter. But um navigating it as a parent, I think when my baby was a baby baby, I was like, Oh my god, everyone, look how gorgeous she is! But it you know, it it stopped pretty quickly, and I became very like aware and concerned about who had access to her. And even you know, talks of my partner wanted to get her ears pierced, and I was like, Oh my god, no, like we are not doing anything to her physical appearance until she can consent to that. So I kind of started looking at social media the same way, like until she can consent, why am I gonna take that away from her?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I totally understand. I just think it's like a nice starting place, like we didn't have our photos as babies all over the internet, and this is the difference as well, like using the internet, whether it be f for S work or how you're representing your family and things like that. It's just so different, you know. I can't imagine what it would be like. It feels relaxing when I speak to my older mum friends, and they're like, girl, we had one book, one book reading about how to have the baby, that's it. You call it your friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it. There's no like whole social media baby campaign, the mum, everything. So nice to try and scale it back to something a bit more raw in the digital world.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely, and I think scaling it back in a way to listen to yourself and to honour yourself in what you're doing. I think that makes like the most sense for me at least. Yeah. Was there any pressure for you to stop working once you found out you were pregnant?

SPEAKER_00:

It came down to more comfortability on what I was still capable of physically and emotionally. Didn't realise that I was gonna be totally grossed out by physical contact, and like I worked for a long time, and I have to say, I I must have a good switch because it's very rare that I go to work in the 15 years and being like, I really don't. But when I felt pregnant, I was like, I really don't.

SPEAKER_03:

That's so interesting because I felt similar. I was like constantly overstimulated, I think.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yes, that's a good way to put it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, like don't touch me, don't look at me, don't don't access who this is.

SPEAKER_00:

And then if I am into it once I'm finished being into it, I might get off me. I've never felt before, so it was really confronting. I think, like I said, it was I definitely had some time like reflecting and thinking, and I did worry what other people would say, especially like I would lie if I said I didn't care, but I do sit down and worry and be like, oh, I know that all these people know that I'm pregnant and I'm posting that I'm going to work, and and what's gonna be the backlash of this. But at the end of the day, it wasn't really about that because, like I said, I'm I'm lucky enough that I've got all these amazing followers that are you know, there's a few bad apples every now and again, but mostly it's just straight up understanding and support. That's not like you get maternity leave, you know. So it's only it's only because I love my future baby so much that I'm making sure I'm prepared now. But really, it did just come down to being a bit uncomfortable, yeah. To work in other ways in online spaces, and and like I haven't shied away from um like OnlyFans and creating content, but I also again thought I was gonna be like, Yeah, I'm gonna do full like fetish, and really it's just a couple of it's so funny how like how crafty us hoes can really be.

SPEAKER_03:

We wanna say we will find a way. And when for me at least when I was pregnant, I was the same. I was like, Okay, money. How are we gonna make it? How am I gonna get around this? I think as well for me, like not being able to work the way that I normally worked, it really threw me through a hoop because that's all I know. I started working and left home at like 15. So that's my safety net.

SPEAKER_00:

That's my dopamine, and that's it's the best dopamine addiction to have working out, eating healthy, and making money. Like if I had to seek dopamine from anywhere and want it to be one of those three, yeah. You would have just been so much going on. I always think about you when I'm like and I'm like, oh, this one not starting a whole new business.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god, yeah. Look, my pregnancy journey was just traumatizing. Yeah, no, like I look back on it now and I'm still yeah, traumatized, but um it was a lot.

SPEAKER_00:

But you know, like it's a lot in general, and then to have all of the extra things happening all at once is so much.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I I'm very thankful for like my community and my partner. I have an incredibly loving and supportive partner who just like constantly has my back. So, like, although I went through a rough time, I completely acknowledge how privileged I am, and I think about people that are going through pregnancy fully alone or you know, teen pregnancies or pregnant in a like a war zone. Like it's just insane the emotional and physical work a person does when they are pregnant and how little recognition the world gives us.

SPEAKER_00:

It really is like peak body performance physically and then emotionally. So, yeah, I've reflected a lot as well. I think a lot now because of the state of the world, and I reflect a lot on being pregnant in like a war-torn country or you know, like in a genocide, and I see what's happening, and I feel so privileged as well, doesn't take away from the workload you're still doing, though.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and like you mentioned, the world is not built for pregnant women or people raising oh I think I like I saw that when I was pregnant, but I actually felt it more post-pregnancy. It's gonna be an interesting uh journey post-pregnancy. Have you got any idea of what that looks like for you? Like, do you think you will go back to work?

SPEAKER_00:

I think I will spend it. I'm gonna give myself a good, I'm gonna say six months of chilling because I think this is a lot of time. I feel again so lucky. Maybe this is the blessing of being like an S worker and then having such a good community that I feel prepared for postpartum because I'm so supported by my friends and my peers. Like, I have my whole post-birth plan, my partner also works in sex work, so yeah, amazing. The best thing I'm always saying about, and I'm like, oh, I'm not even scared because I know whatever we don't have a routine, you know. We just can't be up to go to work at eight in the morning.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, I know. Like, honestly, sex work has it it prepares you for parenthood. I'm a very stubborn person, and the idea of having to go to like a nine to five and then come home and see the baby on someone else's schedule, it's really terrifying for me. Like, incredible love for the people that have to do that. Um, but it you're gonna flourish from all of the skills and time frames S work has set you up with.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, the freedom, the freedom of timing is really important. I've got my best friend coming to stay with me, so I know I'm gonna be fed. There's plenty of hands that are trusted to help out, don't have to worry about if baby's up crying for hours, 3-4 a.m. Like everyone's gonna be very calm, and I can't imagine a nicer way to stay with it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, my one big tip is to do not go on a run. Do not go on a run.

SPEAKER_00:

I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_03:

But for those playing at home, that's how I broke both of my legs. Oh um, what do you think? Uh what would you wish more people understood about sex workers who are parents or that are pregnant?

SPEAKER_00:

It's hard to say because you either have an understanding of sex work and and you maybe have friends if you're outside of the community. I always tell when I meet someone that's maybe a bit sheltered and a bit weird, and they mention to me, oh, I've never met a sex worker before. I'm always like, Well, you have, but they didn't feel safe enough to tell you, and that's your problem. Yeah. So imagine what I would want to tell those people, but I guess probably that like we are a lot more onto it than they could ever imagine when it comes to predatory behavior, protecting yourself, um, thinking about how things are gonna affect us. We live in it, just like as a woman, we live in the world knowing who to be careful of, how to avoid having issues on the street. Sex workers are like at the core of that ultimate safety, and nothing would make us put our child in that kind of position willingly, you know, like you're becoming a mother, we've thought about all of the things because it's a survival instinct and a risk assessment. So if they were so far removed from my world, which people do live in, I forget, and out of my echo chamber.

SPEAKER_03:

They live outside of Madonna's world, crazy, right?

SPEAKER_00:

I and they think, oh no, I'm gonna put my child at risk, or I'm not aware of the dangers of the world for children. So think again, I'm very aware, and I have come this far in my bubble because I know how to identify a risk and would never put my child in a position where I don't feel comfortable and they would be unsafe.

SPEAKER_03:

I think something I see a lot is like, oh, if if this worker has children, then she's doing this job as survival. She doesn't really want to be doing it, she's a single mum, she must be a single mum because she's doing S work, and you're like, wow, we really going down that that track again.

SPEAKER_00:

If anything, I've had conversations in the past before I was pregnant with some young men, very um Andrew Tate vibes, you know, which was weird because also I was filming content with them, so I'm like, Oh, you're happy here to be in my OF video, but you're Andrew Tate, but it's okay, like you've got a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03:

That's a vibe, that's an interesting like duality there, but you know, run with that, I guess.

SPEAKER_00:

They were like, I would never want like the mother of my child to have done this kind of work or whatever, and I was like, Oh, that's on you, because like I get to I get to um be around my child way more, I don't have to go back to work, I can give them everything that they need, you know. There's so many good benefits to it.

SPEAKER_03:

Like I know a lot of sex working moms and they do the most yeah, absolutely, and it's that thing that it's almost like any industry, if the if if you're not happy in it, where whatever job you're doing, that's what's gonna negatively affect your child, most likely, because they're seeing their parent unhappy, you know, and when you're happy, you you're usually able to provide that emotional love and support.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, for sure. I feel I feel weirdly like being a mother and having that connection with the community is like they're like the best things that could go hand in hand together. Like you have such a deep understanding and and like emotional capacity. I I think there could be a lot of great, you know. I get a lot of messages from people that are like, Wow, you really made me realize I can do this too. It's like, yeah, like I said, it was Oh, that's so beautiful, yeah. Like ask me questions about how, and I like I said, it was like really breaking down like a new internalized being like, Well, actually, I can be a mum, and I don't have to have one life path forever because society makes me feel awkward about it. Yeah, I can have it, I'm allowed to, I'm a good person, I'm a caring, I'm loving, I'm responsible, I'm allowed to, and that would be something I say. I like I don't want like the workers to think and and get so oppressed by this societal judgment, like you can do it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, we are so much more than just one aspect of our lives, we have all these intersectionalities, we are not just an S worker, the same as someone is not just a truck driver, we are all these multifaceted parts of ourselves, exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

It's the Madonna Hall complex, you know.

SPEAKER_03:

Wink wink. We love all right. I might just um finish up with some rapid fire questions. So, what's something that you valued at the start of the career that you do not value anymore?

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, I nearly want to say money, but it just doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_03:

But maybe the value of money, maybe that might have changed.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. I think before I would be a money hoarder and be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and now the money is like, oh, I don't have to do that, you know. I can pass up on those things. So maybe like, yeah, the value of money changed a little bit. Maybe also like I used to like the shock value of people talking to me, and I'm like, yeah, I'm a sex worker.

SPEAKER_03:

I think that you know, society has changed a lot on that reaction too. Like the the curtain has been pulled back quite a bit as well, so it's a lot more accessible, so people's views are you're not cool and edgy to be a sex worker anymore, as well.

SPEAKER_00:

It's like oh, which is nice, I like that. I like that now. I'm like, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Have you got a favourite rogue night of working that sticks with you?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I guess I a few years ago I was just in a bit of a party era, and I would have budget so well, and I remember going to work, I had five dollars. Like, this is not even that long ago, you know. Like, I should think we've all been there, yeah. I should have been way more mature, money savvy. And I was like, damn, I really milked the last day of I have to go to work, and like you're burnt out, you don't want to. I've obviously avoided going to work for so long. I had five dollars in my pocket, and then I walk in, I've been going to a book, and two days later I come out with however much one guy, and I just nearly slept the whole time. Like, he just wanted to chill. Oh, the dream, we ordered Uber Eats, watched movies, and I walked out of there with like a good, you know, couple, like a good stack, and I was like, wow, I went in at like 4 p.m. on a Friday with five dollars, and now I'm leaving Monday morning with I don't have to go back to work again. So that is like a broader, yeah. That was like a weekend, I guess. Yeah, to the bender.

SPEAKER_03:

You're like, I've got my beauty sleep now, I've made my money, I'm ready to party again.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I guess I think about that one a lot because that's just what it's like going to work. You never know if you're gonna make five dollars or ten thousand and what's gonna happen, I'm gonna sit there all night, I'm gonna be busy. So to be like, wow, I really came in with nothing and now I'm leaving, really good.

SPEAKER_03:

Love it. Um, what do you want your impact on the industry to be?

SPEAKER_00:

I I would like if if anything, my influence is just for the girls to look out for each other.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

We go outside in the world and there's haters every day. Let's not do it to each other. That's why I'm so open. Like my inbox is open. You can talk to me, and I've always been like that. Um, my house is generally open, probably not anymore now, my mum, but I'm always taking touring girls that need a break and putting on my couch because that's what they did for me, and that's what's given me longevity in the industry.

SPEAKER_03:

I think it's so important to also just like show how to care for your community. Yes. I think it kind of like takes the scariness out of it when you can show people how you can treat each other.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's definitely an interesting time. The industry's changed a lot, and I think that the boots on the ground community care definitely just needs to be remembered and passed on. There's a lot of cliche clicks happening.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I feel that. I hear that. I hear that. How do you see your work either within the industry or without contributing to the future generations?

SPEAKER_00:

I feel so deeply connected to sex work that even though it's just a job, it's more than that for me. I feel like I grew up in the back of brothels and my whole lifestyle and everything's so influenced by sex work. I just want, I guess, other people to feel like they can be their authentic self in the years to come and that they can take creative inspiration and things. It doesn't always have to be this job about sexual services. There's so much more to sex work, and and I think again, it's the community care and and how to care for other people inside or outside of work with your community. It's really like a healing, like type of human connection.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god, absolutely. Yeah, just being around the different types of people that you may not have grown up with. Yeah, the work itself is yeah, you know, therapy for you know the clients.

SPEAKER_00:

It's such a worldly experience. Like I always say that one of my favorite things about it is that I get to slip through the cracks of the social classes, and I get to spend time, you know, well off, wealthy people, middle class, lower, and it it doesn't matter because it's a human connection, and I and I guess that's nice in in and outside of the industry too, to be able to have that experience.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah, I hear that. That's like such a beautiful answer. I love I really love hearing that. Well, I think that is all of my questions. So where can the fans find you? Have you got op uh open socials at the moment?

SPEAKER_00:

Are you I'm still on a private, but I check it, I check it, and as long as you don't look too trolly, I literally might be accepted. So I'm Madonna World. Um, and then in the meantime, if they can always catch me on my OnlyFans if they really want to.

SPEAKER_03:

And what's your OnlyFans name link?

SPEAKER_00:

MWC666.

SPEAKER_03:

I think it'll be in uh Madonna's link tree as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, for sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, thank you so much for sharing such an intimate part of your life. Like I really appreciate it, and I think it's such an important conversation to talk about pregnancy within our industry because a lot of it is sheltered away from people. So opening yourself up and letting other workers see that it's such a like beautiful and caring thing to do. So it's it's so appreciated.

SPEAKER_00:

And I appreciate all of the love and support I've gotten back. I feel so lucky. Well, thank you so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02:

This is Harlot Hotline with June Jones, and thank you so much for listening. A big thank you to all of our guests for showing up with honesty and fire. For guest links and harlot merch, check the show notes on our link tree or on our Instagram at Harlot Shop.